TPP 462: Dr. Stephen Porges and Karen Onderko on the Safe & Sound Protocol

I’m thrilled to share this conversation with Dr. Stephen Porges and Karen Onderko about the Safe and Sound Protocol (SSP), a therapeutic approach grounded in Stephen’s groundbreaking polyvagal theory. Stephen, a Distinguished University Scientist and originator of the polyvagal theory, has spent decades helping us understand how our nervous system shapes behavior, connection, and healing. Karen, who was instrumental in bringing SSP from the lab into clinical practice, has been a tireless advocate for expanding access to polyvagal-informed care around the world. In this episode, we dive into the origins of SSP, the science behind it, and what makes it such a powerful tool for supporting emotional regulation—especially for people navigating trauma and neurodivergence. Stephen and Karen share stories from real-life applications of the protocol, explain how co-regulation plays a central role, and highlight the many ways SSP can foster connection and resilience. Whether you’re new to polyvagal theory or already familiar, this is a hopeful and inspiring conversation about what’s possible when we work with the nervous system to support healing. About Dr. Stephen W. Porges Dr. Stephen W. Porges is the originator of the Polyvagal Theory, a theory that emphasizes the importance of physiological state in the expression of behavioral, mental, and health problems. He is the creator of a music-based intervention, the Safe and Sound Protocol ™. In collaboration with Anthony Gorry, he co-created a Sonocea® Enhanced acoustic technology, engineered to support homeostatic functions and embedded in the Rest and Restore Protocol™. With Karen Onderko, Deb Dana, and Randall Redfield, he is a cofounder of the Polyvagal Institute. He has authored several books, including the Polyvagal Perspectives: Interventions, Practices, and Strategies (2024). He has coauthored Safe and Sound: A Polyvagal Approach for Connection, Change, and Healing (2025) with Karen Onderko. About Karen Onderko Karen Onderko is a passionate advocate for advancing the understanding and application of polyvagal principles to improve care, connection, and acceptance among people. She played an important role in bringing SSP from the laboratory to the clinical world, conducting the initial testing, developing the training, and supporting the SSP provider community.  Together with Dr. Porges, she has written a book about SSP titled Safe and Sound: A Polyvagal Approach to Connection, Change and Healing. Regularly witnessing the transformative power of a polyvagal-informed approach, she is eager to support the promotion of education and access to PVT for people in diverse communities throughout the world. Karen is a founding board member of the Polyvagal Institute.​ Things you'll learn from this episode  How the Safe and Sound Protocol (SSP) draws on polyvagal theory to support nervous system regulation Why melodic voices and filtered music can help calm the body and mind How SSP offers a non-invasive, evidence-based option for individuals dealing with trauma and anxiety Why co-regulation is a key part of making SSP therapy effective How real-life case studies show powerful transformations when SSP is used, often alongside other therapies Why the ultimate goal of SSP is creating greater flexibility in the nervous system’s response to stress Resources mentioned Dr. Stephen Porges’ website Polyvagal Institute Karen Onderko (at PVI) Safe and Sound: A Polyvagal Approach for Connection, Change, and Healing by Stephen Porges, PhD and Karen Onderko Polyvagal Theory: Current Status, Clinical Applications, and Future Directions Randall Redfield (at PVI) Doreen Hunt (at Unyte) Safe and Sound Protocol (at Unyte) Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices