EFF boss Cindy Cohn and McSweeney's editor Claire Boyle on digital privacy and "the end of trust"

Cindy Cohn, the executive director of the Electronic Frontier Foundation, and Claire Boyle, the managing editor of McSweeney's Quarterly Concern, talk with Recode's Kara Swisher about a special nonfiction issue the two organizations teamed up to produce, "The End of Trust."

In this episode: Why the EFF and McSweeney's decided to work together; have consumers given up on having privacy?; why "Facebook doesn't really have users or customers, they have hostages"; the current copyright battles in Europe; why the ability of AI to play chess says little about the usefulness of AI in general; surveillance that doesn't seem malevolent and the privilege of "I have nothing to hide"; China's "bonkers" social scoring system; the history of the internet and how things got screwed up; how to unscrew it; will Congress make a move on tech when the shutdown ends?; the importance of Section 230 of the Communications Decency Act